Long Back or Club Foot?

I decided to leave Tuesday's post up as the top post for an extra day so that hopefully a few more people could see it and maybe one or two more eyes would be opened up to the Big Lick Industry. I had typed up a big ol long reply for what Kat and CNJ said, and then I went to post it, and realized I was logged into gmail under the wrong email address... when I tried to log out and log back in under the correct gmail, blogger ate my post. I really didn't feel like retyping it out again, but the gist of it was that Kat, you are ok to correct anything I ever say on here about soring and the BL industry if I'm wrong and simply that its the 'good ol' boy' club that needs to be seriously broken up permanently within that upper echelon of the Tennessee Walker Club in regards to the Celebration Show for any serious changes to happen. I loved what happened with the Celebration where all but (correct me again please Kat if I'm wrong! :) ) I want to say 2 or 3 horses were DQ'd out of the Saturday Night Championship Big Lick Class, with some seriously BNT being told they couldn't compete that night for the Ultimate Big Lick Title. 


I'd love to see more of that, as would a lot of other people. 


That posting also had the very small distinction of being post number 70 for me on here! I should do something fun or snazzy for post 100, I just don't know what yet. 


I also have a very awesome update, that I've been dying to put up here too, I think after the nastiness of that photo, we need some goodness here, yes? 


I'm sure all of you will remember this little donkey from the "Can't You Hear Him Braying Ouch!" posting. 

He was rescued out of that dump and here's his story! 

One of my borders did decide to go and buy him.  Of course we got about 4-5 stories from the owner of how long he had had Donkey and where he got him, so we are really not sure of his background.  He was still intact, so our first matter of business (after his feet, of course!) was gelding him.  He has been a trooper right along.  He has been beaten in his past (was VERY scared to be hand grazes at first), but he is amazing with my 3 year old daughter, just melts for her.  His feet are MUCH better.  Our farrier did a great first trim and Donkey cantered off after and moves soundly!  All of our horses are scared of him, and now he is starting to be scared of horses because of their reaction!  He is fun to have around.

The Barn Owner that sent me that email also gave me a link to a facebook album with a few more pics of him. She also included pictures of his gelding surgery, so there is some blood, but its not terribly bad. Those are his feet from before - I'm thinking the top is front, the bottom is hind, from the angles of the legs. Either way, no animal should ever have to walk around like this.

There's a few more pictures in there than what I can show here, but I have to include this one. I just LOVE donkey faces! This guy sure looks TONS happier now.

And AFTER the first trim... loads better. The farrier has estimated about 6 months of trims to get his feet back to normal but he will get there.

There are also some really adorable pictures of him with the BO's daughter... like most donks, he's got a soft spot for kids.  They named him Otie! LOL.

Thank you so much Francine for sharing that and allowing me to put it up. We need more good stories like Otie's! 

I am still periodically checking up on Comet and Valora, I'll try to get an update on them soon as well.

Ok, shall we move on with the icky stuff? Today's not to bad, I promise. Just mild ickyness. 

I named today's post "Long Back or Club Foot" because one of the ads features a very long backed horse, and one of them has a club foot... but do very similar jobs. The price point between them is substantial, and while I'm very sure the vast majority of us will agree that one of the price points is more than outrageous, I'm interested in the question of what conformational faults would you be willing to overlook if everything else about the horse is spot on. 

Rope Horse/Kids Horse/Trail Horse Bay Gelding $1000 FIRM (Maricopa)

Finished Bay Head and Heel quarter horse for sale. "Doc" is a sound 1990 model that loves to be ridden and roped off of. He has been on vacation for the last few years and I just can't stand to let him sit in the pen and go to waste any longer. He shoes quiet, hauls well (he should know because he has been to all corners of the southwest). He would be a great horse for a #3 roper or better. I have hauled him to anything from USTRC ropings to rodeos to local jackpots. I have made quite a bit of money off of him roping. He is a wonderful horse all the way around. I am the second only owner of this horse which means he hasn't been passed back and forth from one ranch to another. "Doc" has blood lines from Doc Bar and Hancock. He is not current on registration papers but everything is in line to be set up. I bought him from a horse breeder in Colorado that produces pristine looking horses. He won a reigning title as a 2 yr old. I am comfortable putting my kids on him and not having to worry about them. Doc would make a good kids horse too if that is what your looking for. He is one that knows the difference in experienced and non experienced riders - A good babysitter! . No bad habits and loves to be taken care of. Current on West Nile Shots. Doc has also been around cattle in the pasture and on the mountain. He is sure footed when it comes to ridding on hills and trails. "Doc" has also been on a few hunting trips and knows how to pony and pack. I hate to get rid of him but knowing that he will live out his life doing what he loves means more. Please call Jessica 480---0969. 

p.s. that is a fly tag around his neck.

So before I post the picture of this guy, let me point out a few things. He's older, (19) which can be a double edged sword. He's an ex-roping horse - which means he really might have that 'seen it done it all' attitude. Most of these old rope horses really are as close to 'bombproof' as one can get... though as always, there are exceptions. One thing that concerns me is the 'reigning title as a 2 yr old'... that means he was broke way early, and combine that with the roping life... soundness would be a serious consideration with this guy. 

"I bought him from a horse breeder in Colorado that produces pristine looking horses." 

This sentence by itself would make me stop and wonder what a 'pristine looking horse' is, but I think I'll throw out the picture for you all now... 

E-YOW! Gotta wonder what some people are thinking when they write these ads. Why this chick chose to use the words "pristine horse" to describe this guy I have NO clue. I've seen swaybacked horses before, I've had them here on the blog before. You'd think though, that she'd SAY SOMETHING about his back in the ad - instead of trying to pass him off as "pristine" - whatever the hell that means. Sway backed horses most of the time can be ridden, but good saddle fit is a very high priority here. 

Honestly though for him at this point, pasture life with a few 'pony rides' for the grandkids might not be a bad life for him; add in some Light trail work to keep his mind active and sound... but he's not going to hold up to hard work - that back will simply give out on him one of these days. She's only asking for $1000 - which I think is a great price for him, considering that his personality/mental soundness will be well worth that price. 

He's obviously the 'long back' for this post lol. Let's move on to our club foot, shall we?

!!^MADE BARREL HORSE READY FOR ANY LEVEL RIDER!!! - $20000 (East Tucson) 

Creek is an amzing horse she has beat the odds! she is not registered and has a clubfoot but yet she places at the top of the 1D consistantly when she is in shape unfortunetly my ground is too hard for me to work her and i dont want to take the chances. She is automatic and is quiet at the gate she is automatic enough for a little girl to start on or high school rodeo. I only want to take one horse to college with me and that is also why i am selling her i am negotiable on the price depending on the home, because she is out of shape. She can do so much but we dont get along as well as i would like i ahve seen her go so much faster with other people so come try her!! she is you next money earner!! 

please call or text 520--1184 

Yea, I told you that one of the price points was outrageous. *Dissection knife at the ready*

1st of all... a club foot isn't a work death sentence. The sorrel mare you see on the side bar had a mild club foot, and while she wasn't that comfortable to ride (the worst jackhammer trot and canter you've EVER been on), it didn't affect her that much. I have no idea why the hardness of the ground would affect the mare...unless there's other soundness issues going on with her as well? What I want to know is do you work your OTHER horse on that same ground...

2nd ... This mare is NOT registered. I will never say unregistered or grade horses aren't worth buying. But when have you ever heard of a grade horse going for $20,000 WITH a club foot? 

3rd... its ok to admit that you are going off to college and can only afford one horse. Most people will understand that. However, admitting that the two of you didn't get along is not the best selling point! 

4th... I get the feeling here that she's looking at this mare as the possible start to her college fund... I mean come on. $20,000 for this mare? In NO WAY will she ever get that close to that price. She claims she's negotiable on the price to the right home, and I can see her maybe using the uuber high price to turn unsavory people away. But how far exactly is she willing to come down from that mountain top? What is negotiable for her? $5,000? $10,000? Would YOU be willing to drop the price by TEN GRAND if you were heading off to college? Why set it THAT high to start with? $10,000 is plenty high enough to scare away those same types of people and still give you some negotiating room without making yourself feel like you just got robbed. 

I *think* just by looking at the picture the left hind might be the club foot, but It might also be the shadow crossing over the hoof too. Since you can't see the right fore, it might very well be that one too.

Can't tell from the action shot as well. She had two other pictures of her barrel racing, but they were covered with "Proof" watermarks, and I wasn't about to repost those. 

So back to my original question. Here we have two similar backgrounded, but different horses that did similar jobs. They both have pretty serious conformational defaults. Neither being one you want to pass on. The gelding, at least there's no possibility of that happening... but with the mare, there's a very GOOD chance she'll be bred, if she hasn't been already. 

Out of the two, which is the lesser of the two evils?

Valora's Story Continued...

The next chapter in Valora's story has been revealed tonight, as another news station was able to snag an interview with the Farrier accused in the beating of the 14 year old Thoroughbred mare, previously named Susie-Q. 


I gotta say, this is getting more and more complicated, and the more of the background of this horse that gets out, the worse this whole situation gets. 


Wayne Tolliver, who is the local Farrier who is said to have been seen beating Valora in the road, while trying to get her to get into the trailer, claims he never beat the horse once. 


His story is this: The lady that owned the mare for nearly her whole life contacted him about him taking the mare off her hands, as her husband had just passed and she couldn't afford the vet care on the mare. 


This mare, has been through hell and back her entire life. Joey, the founder of LUV Shack Ranch, has gone on camera and stated that this mare had NEVER left her stall her entire LIFE. 


Her front legs are deformed from never being let out of her stall. Apparently she has also lost an eye, but whether it was prior to this incident or from the incident, I am unclear on that. The picture of her hooves on the prior post is apparently the way she's been living for some time. 


According to Tolliver, she'd never BEEN in a trailer before, and thus got more and more upset. He claims he never pushed her into it, and after numerous attempts to her her to load, she became more agitated, and thats when she bashed her head against the sides. 


Now, neighbors say they saw a man beating the same horse on the head. So who's telling the truth here? 


We have a mare with serious, possibly life threatening injuries to her skull that has suffered neglect and abuse her entire life. She's never been out of her stall, or at least hasn't been in several years. 


I have already spoken briefly to the head honchos of LUV Shack, and hopefully will be heading out there monday or tuesday to visit, see how I can help - maybe sign up for some volunteering - and also see if this blog can be used to help them in the future.



LINK to ABC 15 story


I don't believe the farrier for one minute. 


What do you all think?


EDIT: Its been a few minutes since I hit publish, and the news video started playing once I did that. I watched it a second time, and then a third time.


I want to point something out - the neglect that this mare suffered at the hands of her prior owner has nothing to do with the fact that the husband died, and she's loosing her house. That mare is 14 years old, and the prior owner claims to have owned her most, if not all of her life. 


10 years... we'll be generous here... is a AWFUL F'ING LONG TIME to NOT LET YOUR HORSE OUT OF ITS STALL,  wouldn't most of you all agree??? 


I can't wait to see what the Maricopa County Sheriff's investigation comes up with on this one. 

LOCAL Asshat beats a horse nearly to death

I know I don't usually post on weekends, nor do I comment about news stories (maybe I should!), but this story from a local tv station just really Pissed Me Off. Not only did this happen in MY backyard, but this is something that can happen to any one of our horses, at any time when transferring ownership. I don't want to be a fear monger, as I know that often its without any alternatives that we have to give up or sell our beloved horses. This is still a classic reason why even when giving horses away for free, maybe a background check wouldn't be such a bad idea....

There are two news videos that I'll post, but here's the background in case you can't view the videos. 


A lady has a mare that she's willing to give away for free. She advertises the mare, and a 'gentleman' says he'll take the mare. Last Thursday, (April 15th) he arrives to pick the mare up, a little 14 hand Thoroughbred bay cutie called Susie-Q. 


The story is simple, the mare doesn't load into the trailer, for whatever reason. Her rescuers at the LUV Shack Ranch and Rescue swear she already KNEW what a f'ing jerk this guy is, and was refusing to go with him. they go on to say that they think she knew she'd be killed if she went willingly, and I will agree with them whole heartedly....


Now, most people would stop, and try to come up with a reasonable solution to this problem. Note I said "MOST PEOPLE". 


This ASSHOLE (I'm refraining from using stronger language) decides that instead of asking for help from the woman giving her away, he's going to start punching little Susie-Q ON HER HEAD! Punches her so badly and viciously, that she, in her desperate attempt to get away from her attacker, slams her head into the side of the trailer!!!


Would you all like to know why the 'new owner' wanted her? 


The rescue group states on their website and facebook feed that the "new owner" - who is a FARRIER!!! - was planning on taking her, putting a bullet in her head, and selling her body for the meat price at a rendering plant.


Video 1: 





LINK to story.

Can you believe that??? If you watch the video, you'll see the lady from the local rescue attempting to get her to load into a trailer. Thats Joey Ogburn, the founder of LUV Shack. 
Note that she's doing it slowly, without anger, and without stressing the poor mare out again. This mare went through hell standing at the entry of a horse trailer, and now her rescuers have to do the impossible and get her to trust them enough to get her into another trailer. They had to load her in backwards to get her in the trailer, how bout that smart thinking!


Maricopa County Sheriff's Office got involved too, thanks to the calls of some astute neighbors, when they saw the guy beating the horse. The prior owner claims that she didn't know he planned on killing the mare, and sending her off to the rendering plant. They are now investigating the Farrier - but so far any planned charges won't be filed / released publicly until next week.  MCSO Officers 'requested' that the prior owner call and PAY for the vet services to get her injuries taken care of. Names have not yet been released yet either.


Her injuries included 20 + stitches in her head and one hind fetlock, numerous scrapes, bruises and swellings, a laceration on her face, and her skull in fractured in two places. She is suffering from a concussion as well.


If this does not make you sick, then I don't know what would.


Last nights news update:





Link to story.  The anchor is reporting that the mare has found a new loving home, but that is no where NEAR the end of this for her. LUV Shack is so flooded with rescue horses right now that they had to find an outside foster home for her, and the kind hearted Gary and Amy Guthmiller took her in. 


There is so much more to this story too...


The lady that was getting rid of her, due to reasons being 'she couldn't take care of her' let her feet go for a very long time without farrier work. How ironic is that! The powers that be at the LUV Shack are pushing for the prior owner to face neglect charges as well - I think most of us will agree on that - either way it should be interesting to see how getting her charged plays out.

I know its a bit hard to distinguish between the sawdust and her feet, but if you look closely, you can see how overgrown they are. This is the work of the woman that was giving her away. This poor mare, who not only suffered a brutal beating, has suffered much longer, and in much more subtle ways. 

I am not a fundraiser type. I am not even a decent sales person. People say no once to me, and I don't push. I believe in helping out when circumstances deserve the help, and this is one of those times. I will be sending them what money I can afford. Unlike our roadside zoo-rescue-breeding-skunk-farm scam, these guys are the real deal. They are worthy of donations, and I will certainly be donating. 

As soon as I am done writing this, I will post the link to this blog post on their face book feed. I will offer to publish horses that need homes for them for free on this blog. I think I might even offer to come out and volunteer a time or two for them. The LUV Shack Ranch is less than 30 minutes from me - an easy drive. 

There is a good note to this story. Quoted from the news article, "Amy Guthmiller says, 'I immediately called and said she could come here. I have an extra stall and nobody's gonna mistreat this horse again. It won't happen here.'"


*STANDS AND CLAPS* Amy decided that along with a new life, the little Thoroughbred mare should have a new name too. She's been renamed "Valora". The name was discovered when Amy was searching for names that meant courage. 


I promise you all that every update I can find about Valora will be posted here. As soon as I know the 'farriers' name he will be posted on here as well for the entire world to see what an ASSHOLE he is. Alleged or not, the man was witnessed by several people beating the horse. The fact that he punched/abused the horse is no longer a question of if in my mind. I will not deem him guilty until the court does, but until then, I can still express my very LOUD opinions of the situation. 


I invite all of you to as well. 


FaceBook Fan Page for LUV Shack Ranch 


Luv Shack Ranch Website