HYPP-othetically Dangerous or Not? Day 2

Yesterday I went over the basics of HYPP, and showcased one ad of a gelding that was H/H who's owners/sellers were trying to sell him as a youth horse.

I can rant and rave and scream until I'm blue in the face about HYPP and what it can do, but for most people the reality comes when its shown to them. The reality of HYPP is something that most horse owners one time or another will come across, no matter what discipline you are in.

So I went and searched on youtube to see what I could find. 


This video was one of only a few on you tube showing what a HYPP attack really looks like. This mare is experiencing a mild attack, as its not forcing her to be laying fully paralyzed on the ground, just making her muscles twitch like I discussed yesterday.





As you can see, the spasms are not completely incapacitating this mare - she can move around somewhat freely. You can also see the heavily muscled hip/hindquarters so typical of these Impressive bred horses. The comments on the video show how much misinformation and just NO information there is out there about this disease. 


The comment: "actually my horse is out, well a grandaughter of Impersive. she is a halter horse and she is N/N but u can not show horses in the AQHA shows if they are HYPP P/P!!! and for bethdhoffman there is no cure for HYPP your best luck is to put them down.....sadly..." by quarterhorse42057 also proves how much some people believe the myths surrounding the disease.


AQHA DOES allow HYPP POSITIVE  horses to show, and not just allows them to show but those horses are WINNING. (just see the prior post!)  She also gets the status wrong (P/P) vs the correct H/H, or N/H - well actually two of the posters get it wrong. 


Here is a video that shows a much more severe attack. This video is from the website http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/HVideo.html. The mare in the video was literally down on the ground partially or fully paralyzed for an hour. The clip is approximately a minute. Notes on the video. The notes state that they could not remove the foal from the mare as she would then become even more stressed and upset. Leaving the foal with the mare at least kept her somewhat calm. The attack happened while she was in a monitored veterinary equine center, and the techs that were attending the mare were in contact with the vet at  all times during the attack. At the end of the video you can see the bandage around her neck from the IV they had to give her. Unfortunately this mare went on to have several more severe attacks, and finally died from them. During this video she suffered several lacerations, bruises, a large swelling on her chest, and several other mild to moderate injuries from her struggles to get up. 

This is the harsh reality of HYPP. This is what it does. More info from the awesome HYPP website regarding common myths.

Unfortunately, only some horses that have this incurable disease are given the care they need and that home that understands that they do need to be on a special diet, and very strict management. 

So when this ad came to my attention so soon after the one from yesterday, It made my eyes literally pop out of my head. 

The ad screams: 

1994 AQHA halter mare - TAKING OFFERS NOW!!! - $1 (clarksville pa)

MISS ASHLEY BE 1994 chestnut mare. Ashley stands 15.0 hands and is HYPP N/H. Ashley is broke to ride and jump but hasnt been schooled in several months. She is very eager to please and would only be able to be used for light occasional riding due to her age. if ridden often she would most likely need joint supplements. Ashley also has been shown at congress and took 12th as a weanling in halter. She also was shown in WV and earned 1/2 point in open halter. This mare could have gone far but due to the previous owners issues was not shown continueously. Ashley has awesome conformation and is flashy with 3 white socks. Ashley is also a great mother to her foals and foals easy. Ashley has no vices and loads, bathes, clips, and ties well. Ashley is UTD in all shots and wormings. Ashley is great in the field with other horses and tends to get along with everyone. Ashley also does great with 24/7 turn out with a blanket. The weather months tend to dry out her skin so i add corn oil to her feed to enhace her coat and skin. She is an easy keeper and isnt picky about her feed. I am only selling because I will not be breeding for several years due to college and this mare shouldnt go to waste. TAKING ALL OFFERS!! TRADES WELCOME! PLEASE NO HORSES! WILL CONCIDER COWS AND PIGS....ETC..

*sigh* NOT ONCE besides the initial N/H mention does she say if this mare has had any signs of the disease. Whats worse is she's been bred. Several times to boot. The person selling her needs to be sat down and shown picture after picture, made to read story after story, watch video after video of HYPP horses that have shown no signs of the disease, then suddenly after or during the VERY FIRST ATTACK die because either they get so stressed out or their neck muscles stiffen so much they suffocate!

Whats worse, is the seller is down to accepting PIGS(?) in payment for this horse that they had listed on this site for $3000! The only good thing I can say about this ad is that at least the mare is being sold unbred. 

I'm so sad for these two horses because if the breeder had simply chosen to not breed their H/H or N/H horse this wouldn't be an issue. 

But as promised, I'm not done yet. 

Fingers get pointed at owners for purchasing these horses as show animals, creating the market for them. Fingers get pointed at the AQHA for continuing to allow the breeding of these horses. Fingers get pointed at breeders for creating the foals in the first place. 

The owners of Invest N Vital Signs is now offering with any full price breeding to their stallion (at their cost) the additive of an extender to his semen. 

This 'magic' formula has been patented as X-Extender, and the idea behind it is this: "A substance and process for preventing reproductive cells containing a genetic defect from being passed onto offspring by creating conditions, such as by adding a particular substance to extra-cellular fluid, that triggers or activates the particular disease associated with the genetic defect in defective reproductive cells, rendering those cells incapable of fertilization, implantation or embryonic development, but without significantly impairing healthy reproductive cells from producing offspring. The invention is particularly suited for channelopathies, and more particularly, for application with sperm from a Quarter Horse that is heterozygous for hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP). A solution of potassium chloride is added to a sperm extender to produce a potassium concentration of about 0.71 mg/ml. Sperm is introduced to the resulting modified sperm extender for at least five minutes, then is artificially inseminated into a mare. The high potassium concentration activates the disease solely within the sperm containing the defective gene, resulting in leakage of sodium-ion channels that under the increased potassium concentration floods the cytoplasm with positive ions, preventing repolarization of the cell membrane, immobilizing the defective sperm. The potassium concentration does not prevent repolarization in healthy sperm, which retain motility and are capable of fertilizing the egg." Link. 

Basically, they think they can stop the sperm with the defective gene in it from fertilizing the mare. Apparently they have been testing this idea, and has 'shown amazing results'. Whatever that means. If they can actually get this stallion to throw 100% N/N babies, I will be the first person to support this product for all stallions. As a result, they offer a HYPP Guarantee that says if you want to breed to their stallion, you have to have a mare that has been tested N/N. Basically if the foal turns out N/H, the X-Extender didn't work! But guess what, you get a free RE-BREED. That means "lets make MORE N/H babies!!". Cause its not like we don't have enough of them out there as it is! 

Invest N Vital Signs's owners, are also offering a $200,000 World Show Bonus Program. If the 2013 2 Year Old Western Pleasure AQHA World Champion is sired by their diseased stallion, the owner gets half, the exhibitor gets half. How many foals will be born N/H just because their breeders will have visions of getting some of that money?

Now do you believe that the HYPP industry is all about the money?

One generation of not breeding any N/H or H/H horse would nearly stop this entire disease in its tracks. Thats all it would take. 

HYPP-othetically Dangerous or Not?

I have been debating whether or not to tackle the subject of the sale of HYPP positive horses on this blog. I have come to the conclusion that one can never fight this battle too much. While my intent here is not to write a paper on HYPP, some background information is necessary,  since there are STILL people out there that believe the myths and untruths, or just flat out don't know anything about it at all. I have three examples that will blow your minds as much as it did mine. 


HYPP, or Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis, is a genetic, inherited equine disease, originating with the AQHA stallion Impressive that affects the horse's nervous system by screwing with the sodium channels and flooding the system with extreme amounts of Potassium. This creates symptoms such as "mild muscle twitching that is undetectable to the human eye; noticeable muscle twitching; "crawling" skin, ranging from slight to very noticeable and usually from the back flank area forward; hind quarter paralysis; excessive yawning; and paralysis of the muscles surrounding the heart and/or lungs, causing death due to heart attack or suffocation" (quoted from here). 


IN laymans terms, these horses literally, can freeze up in a paralytic state at any time, under any circumstances. In their stalls, in the pasture, under saddle. It is especially dangerous for a rider mounted on a HYPP horse, because they could have an attack at any time. IF they have an attack while under saddle, they will loose complete control over their limbs, and they WILL go down to the ground, hard. The rider, unless experienced enough to understand how to safely get off, will be thrown off in some manner. Often times the manner of the rider being thrown from the horses causes in injury or in rare cases, permanent paralysis or death from broken necks and spines. This article about HYPP states in the 10th paragraph down, the debate whether or not to ride these horses, and states that in all of the respondents that argued that while they had positve mounts, not a single one had an attack during a ride. Yet, here (third example down) is a story about a teenage girl that had her HYPP Positive horse go down during a ride. 


Physically, these horses often look like, and are often referred to as the 'bodybuilders' of the Halter world. They are highly sought after as AQHA halter horses because of the extreme Muscling, size, and sheer bulk they naturally have. They get this way due to their muscles in nearly constant motion, twitching from obvious spasms, to the tiniest quivers. The constant contract and relaxing of the muscles is exactly the same biological mechanisms that happen when a human bodybuilder lifts weights. It tears the muscle fibers apart, so when the body rebuilds them, they are stronger, larger, and thicker. 

HYPP Positive horses often are a-symptomatic through birth until anywhere between training and death. Yes, this is a wide time frame, but an attack can come on at any time. 


An attack happens without warning, without preamble, and at any time. It is widely believed attacks are triggered by stress, extreme changes in schedule, training, feed, surroundings, etc. 


Now, these horses inherit this disease through no fault of their own, as the disease is being KNOWINGLY perpetuated by owners of mares and stallions that are N/H. 


What does N/H mean? Its the genetic status of a horse that has the defective gene. Horses that come from known bloodlines that are positive yet did not inherit the gene are N/N. Horses with one positive genetic marker are N/H, and horses that have two genetic markers are H/H. 


Very simply, by breeding a N/H horse to a N/N horse, the resulting foal has a 1 in 2 chance of carrying the positive gene. You have a H/H horse, every single offspring of that horse will have the positive marker, and will have the disease. Not carry it, have it. Exhibit symptoms. Have to specially managed their entire lives. Cost more in Vet fees and feed fees than the average horse. Why? Why is the almighty dollar so powerful that otherwise caring people suddenly become heartless about creating more defective horses?


The controversey surrounding HYPP is one that will not end until the largest breed of horse, the breed that started it all, the mighty AQHA, finally puts it foot down and says NO MORE to breeding its thousands of HYPP H/H and HYPP N/H horses. This list is just a sample of horses that have been found out to be N/H. Here's Page Two. 


Just a bit more information before I showcase todays ads; AQHA's Official Stance on HYPP; UC Davis's Equine Research Lab on HYPP.


So, after all that, why would people actually breed sick horses? Because they win, right? Because their bloodlines are so stellar and irreplaceable that a mare owner can't go anywhere else to find the same, or similar bloodlines? Conscientious people are breeding decedents of Impressive that have his infamous bull dog look, but don't share his dirty gene.


Ad Number 1 today, posted 3/3/10 from the Columbus, OH area. 





Ad Text: 


2002 AQHA 16 HH (So, this horse is a double positive, which means its not IF but WHEN he has an attack, which odds are will eventually prove fatal.) 


Sorrel halter gelding, (at least this one is a gelding!) own son of Wincredible. (Who IS a known HYPP Positive stallion, see below...)  


Has to date 347 AQHA points including youth, amateur and open points. Has earned 77 grands and 94 reserves in the American Quarte Horse Association and won over $10,000 in incentive fund earnings. (And this is why the halter industry keeps breeding these sick, doomed horses, because AQHA, at the top showing levels, will NOT stop pinning these horses top ten!!! Dont believe me? Check out this link! She goes into the finances behind breeding HYPP Positive horses, and goes on to list on the site Well Known Currently Breeding Stallions that have owners NOT disclosing their Postitive HYPP Status. Oh, and Wincredible is one of them. His owner will gladly accept a $2,500 stud fee though!)


This gelding is HYPP H/H, but do not let this scare you as this is not a problem and he can be put on a daily medication to prevent an attack as a precaution. (What magikal medicine is this? There are several drugs that can help prevent attack, but its like taking Vitamin-C to prevent ever getting a cold or the flu. You can take massive quantities of VC and eventually you will get sick. A HYPP H/H horse is eventually going to have an attack. There is nothing any vet can do to prevent that. Its just managing the horse as best as we can to put it off as long as possible.)


This gelding can be easily maintained by a youth or amateur; (This is the sad part where some unknowing parent is going to seriously look at this poor gelding and consider purchasing it for their up and coming 4-H'er,  not having a clue what HYPP is, and what it does to the horse...not even mentioning what it does to the poor child who has to watch his/her beloved horse suffer through an attack! There are several experiences recounted on bringinglighttohypp.org that tell of parents unknowingly buying HYPP horses for their children, and the horror their children have to witness when the horse goes down. Some children never recover emotionally from the devastation and sheer helplessness they feel toward the horse/attack, and never ever go back to horses again. Thats then one more child that doesn't grow up to defend horses against abuse or breeders of HYPP. One more child that will not save a horse from nearly being slaughtered. One more child that will spend their hard earned dollars outside of the horse industry.)


He is an extremely easy keeper. (Nearly all HYPP horses are easy keepers because they sit there in their stalls and their muscles twitch and grow and it looks like they put on weight from air!)


 He has qualified for the aqha open world, youth world and amatuer world and was only shown a total of three times at the world and was top ten all three times. This gelding also has a congress top tens as well. In 2009 he was reserve champion aged gelding at the region 4 regional experience in the open division. More picutres available on his online video on youtube.com just type in "Sir Wincredible" and the linke will come up. (What can I say here except what I already have said? This bloodline has a genetic defect that will kill this gelding. End of story.)


 Asking $2500 OBO. Only selling him as we are looking for a young pleasure prospect. (Possibly because you have witnessed this horse experiencing an attack and maybe someone said something to you about having/breeding a H/H horse? Or maybe you are just looking to dump him because the owners don't want to deal with the disease?)


Not open to trades or partial trades. Would make a great youth or amateur gelding (um, NO he wouldn't!) and will take you all the way. This gelding has had weight pulled off this winter to let him rest but is currently being fit back up to begin showing in May.





So why is it that not once on his entire ad, did the seller mention his show name? If he was that accomplished, that well shown, and I had to sell this horse (sans the HYPP), I'd be blasting his name everywhere to attract those other competitors that saw him compete, hoping one of them would remember him and remember how much they would have liked to have own him themselves. Wanna bet that the owners don't want to be attached publicly to the sale of this horse?


(Quick Self Edit). I am guessing this horse's name is "Sir Wincredible". As I have been writing this, I've been following links all over the place, and checked out the you tube video mentioned in the ad. 


This is the video.  It appears they have had him up for sale for some time, and have dropped the price down quite a bit... the video lists it as $8500 OBO, the CL ad is $2500 OBO. Owners must be getting desperate to dump this poor gelding, wonder how long it will take for this guy to find himself at the local auction, paperless and amazingly enough, HYPP-status suddenly unknown?


Apparently, Wincredible's website, wincredible.com, has also been pulled, no where could I find any website for him. Now I did find the currently listed owners on the quarter horse directory, but as you can see, Wincredible is no longer listed on their website.


I will continue this post tomorrow, as I have spent much longer than I anticipated researching this topic, and work is starting to loom near for the day. Tomorrow I'll have the other ad, and another breeding stallion that is HYPP N/H, yet the breeding contract is .... something else.

The Stupidity Just NEVER Ends...

Thank you to OkieGirl from the Fuglyblog.com for this ad. She posted it in today's comments, and I just couldn't help myself. 


Today we have a 9 month old colt being ridden. This is just.... STOP RIDING BABIES! STOP STOP STOP!


Its a 9 month old foal for christ's sakes! This type of plain ignorance just makes me sick! 



Ad Text:

 I have a beautiful nine month old stud colt for sale. He thinks he is a dog and loves people. very smart and well mannered does great with his feet and will let you touch him anywhere. I have put bags on him and he does fine. Very trusting little guy. Stetson should be around 14.3 hh when grown. He is registered but the guy I bought him from never sent them to me. I will give you the number if you want to rasttle with it. His mom was running barrels and doing good. Thats why I got him hoping one day he would be my barrel horse but loss of land forces sell. I saddle him up and my three year old nephew rides him around. as you can see in the pic.. Stetson is very gentle and just wants to please you. Asking $400 OBO Also have another solid colt I would sell cheaper. If interested please call 405xxxxxxxx.

And the Picture: 


Ok, its not even ok that the 'rider' is a child. No, not a child, a freaking toddler. SEE PRIOR BLOG POST.


Oh, wait... the colt has 'color' too. See that? Can you see past the saddle to look at the foals' coat? It's a buckskin tobiano! OF COURSE it is! *puke vomit retch*


I won't go through all the reasons that this low life needs to be reported to CPS and have all of the kids and animals taken away from him due to his asinine ideas that its so freakin' cute to him have his child (sans ANY head protection) ride his sub-year old foal. 


I really hope that someone sees this ... I'm gonna break one of my own rules here and post the link.... and reports him to the local CPS for child endangerment. Though, noting the area its from, I doubt that would do a damn thing. 


Link


I can't even get past the fact that he's putting his child on a foal to truly read what ELSE he wrote. 


*Takes deep breath, goes back and reads it.*


Yada Yada, talking about how 'great' he is, how 'well mannered', etc; oh well at least he didn't breed him himself... he bought him from a guy that 'won't' give him the reg papers? Wonder why not... Hmm. Sounds fishy to me there ... moving on ... maybe cause they saw what a fucktard he was and sold him the colt anyways ... hoping he'd be a barrel horse like mom .... was he planning on training him himself? God help us, like the world needs another f'ked up, unsound, insane at the gate unregistered barrel STALLION (oh cause there's NO way he would have ever gelded him...oh no not a RARE Tobiano BUCKSKIN, HERE THIS IS HOW RARE AND VALUABLE THESE HORSES ARE)... oh ok so the boy is three years old and HIS nephew. Yea cause that makes it better. Wonder if MOM is taking the picture. 


AAAAnnnddd...... he's got another solid colt he'd sell cheaper? Oh lord. Cause color is better. Ok, AGAIN, THERE ARE CREMELLOS, PERLINOS, AND ALL SORTS OF OTHER "RARE" COLORS BEING SOLD TO THE MEAT MARKET. Wonder if it was because that one wouldn't let hIM put a saddle on him at the same age as this poor little guy? 


I am so disgusted over this I can't / don't want to go look for something positive to post against it in comparison. There IS NO comparison to this. This is bottom feeding, ignorant, backwoods stupidity at its worst. 

Risking the lives of children...

...is something that most of us parents would never knowingly or willingly do. Right? 

I beg to differ. There is something about a horse that for most parents, safety and common sense goes right out the window. I don't understand it, and it makes me want to scream at these parents for their inability to reason that putting their small child on a 1000 pound plus animal without proper safety gear... (I'm talking helmets now)... is completely beyond me.

I have two examples for you that were posted on 2/28/10. They are from different parts of the US, yet show similar pictures. 

The first is from Austin, TX, near Cedar Creek. Never been there, I'm sure its a very nice area with very nice, friendly people. 

Ad Text:

APHA Mare. Candy has done it all. Trail Riding, Team Penning, Barrel Racing, Pole Bending, Play Days, and working with cows. She is 12 yrs, but has a lot of get up and go. UTD on shots, never been sick or injured. If you want a horse for barrel Racing, she is fast!
She is best suited for an experienced rider. I will consider a lease or sale for $5,000.00 OBO. Price has been reduced for quick sale. 

Sounds like a wonderful horse, and a fun one at that. So, the issues come into play when you scroll down to the pictures. "Best suited for an experienced rider." Keep that in the back of your mind...

In the lower left hand picture we have a small boy riding bareback with mom leading with a halter. He's got a western hat on, but that is NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR A HELMET. This mare also has a small foal at her side. 

I decided to start this blog highlighting these ads to give the ad writers a heads up on how their target audience sees them. However, I'm starting to see a way to help educate as well. 

Here's the problem. Foals like to run and play. A Lot. They don't always follow instructions from the human to walk alongside us nicely, no matter how much we'd like them to... and thats when they are on a halter and lead. Little foals like this, even when ON a halter/lead tend to do silly things like pull back, buck, jump, run us over, crow hop, attempt to bolt, and even flip over on their furry little heads. This becomes even worse when they are running loose next to Mom. 

Most horse owners have a limited horse education. Some get smart and realize that they just don't know as much as they'd like to know, and start doing things like reading books, watching DVD's, asking questions, take lessons, and generally begin stuffing themselves with as much horse info as they can hold. Horse Behavior, while fascinating to nearly all self proclaimed "horse lovers", is a highly complex and complicated subject of study. What I've found happens most often is the person might read one or two very popular books that are currently available at most major book retailers that delve into the general aspects of horse behavior, yet don't get into it very deeply, or cover things like how a mare acts around her foal. 

The behavior of a mare with foal is an interesting dynamic. The common misconception is that when you have Mom on a halter and lead rope, and baby is running free, (like what we have in this little scenario), baby will always follow Mom. This is unfortunately, not the case. See, foals are curious, impulsive little creatures, and if they suddenly get the urge to run willy-nilly around the pasture, well, there's not much you can do to stop them if they're free. They will be gone, tail straight up, faster than you can say "Where did she go?" But MOM is still on a halter and lead. She can't go running willy-nilly around the pasture with her foal. MOM then starts to get agitated and nervous, and well, no matter how well behaved she might be otherwise, will still most likely do everything she can to run after her offspring. 

It doesn't matter to her if there is a small child on her back. This is especially true of Quarter Horse and Paint mares. They are tough, stubborn, single minded, and contrary to popular belief, are not the most easy going sorts when it comes to their foals. Some of the nicest stock mares you'll ever find turn into raging horses of evil and hate when you DARE get within 50 feet. They were bred to be independent and take care of their foals out on the open range where a foal is dinner for a hungry coyote pack. There's no getting around it. We created them that way.

The moment I laid eyes on this seemingly innocent picture, I saw that cute little fuzzy foal suddenly bolting off in a frenzy of joy, Mom seeing baby run off, Mom running over the handler to get free, and bolting off after offspring, thereby DUMPING THE CHILD OFF OF HER BACK. I'm not making this up folks. I've seen otherwise calm, sane, respectful mares suddenly go berserk when their foals take off and they decide to follow more times than I'd care to count. Matter of fact, the middle finger of my right hand nearly got shattered when a mare decided to run after her foal and *Your's Truly* was walking her to turn out. 

If thats not enough my best friend in high school got double barrel kicked square on the chest when the Arabian mare she was leading to turn out decided to run after her foal who was nearly 100 feet ahead of her. The mare didn't even think twice, she lunged forward, pulled the rope out of my friends highly experienced hands, and within a second let those hind feet fly. My friend woke up 20 minutes later on a gurney, staring at the ceiling of an ambulance without a clue how she got there.

The cute little miniature cowpoke on her back doesn't stand a chance if that were to happen. He's got NOTHING to hold on to, and NOTHING to protect his head if she dumps him into that tree in the background.

The simple solution to this is two fold: 1) Put a damn helmet on the kid. No if's, and's, or but's. In my book, this is non-negotiable. The child's safety is way too important not to. 2) Put a foal sized halter and lead on the foal, and lead the foal. Thats right, because if you lead the foal, there's no way in HELL that Mom is going anywhere her foal isn't. She'll follow baby to the ends of the earth should baby wish to go (or actually, where ever the handler wishes to go). Heck, all you have to do is have a third person lead baby just out side of the camera and you can still have a halter on Mom - really, or the child's sake, its a darn good idea to still be able to control Mom. 

OH, and irritatingly enough, this family obviously OWNS a helmet, look at the picture to the bottom right! Its OK for the adult to wear it, but not the child? 

For the record, judging by the other pictures, this mare really does give off a vibe to be rather decent minded. This situation is still a disaster waiting to happen.

Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated occurrence. 

Example Ad #2. Slightly different situation, yet nauseatingly similar. 

(Though, the title to the ad is catchy...)

We have from my own 'back yard' Wickenburg, Az, another ad that shows how absolutely any parent can simply forget that their child is riding 1000 pounds plus of explosion waiting to happen.

The part of this ad that put it at the top of my options today is the description of the second of the two "long, tall, and ugly horses for sale". 

Ad Text: 

16.2H, 7 yr old, TB mare, chestnut. I put kids on her mostly because she's great in the arena and seems to really like children. Fastest learner EVER. Goes english, western, bareback, and barefoot. Nice girl but kind of dingy. A lot of people throw this around, but this horse has MAJOR potential. Vet checks out sound. She's very broke, but just needs more time put into her. I suggest an experienced rider if you'll be doing a lot of trail riding. If you and your kids are experienced riders, by all means, call me - however, if you want a bombproof horse for the grandkids, this is NOT your mare! CONS: She can be a headtosser and I often use a loose tiedown on her. She needs to be taught how to just be a horse, she's come a long way but it still not a horse you can pasture for a month and then ride. Really, she's a great mare but needs time. $500 

Ok. Is the horse ok for kids or is she not ok for kids? I'm confused. Honestly if the OWNER doesn't know, how is a potential buyer going to figure that out in a 30 minute try out? Also, listing your horses Bad points on a sale ad isn't real smart either... The idea is to talk up the horse? Not scare everyone away. Not to mention: Nice but dingy. Broke but needs time. Puts kids on her because she likes kids but not suitable for a bomb proof horse for the grandkids???

Sheesh make your mind up already, would ya?

Thats not why its on todays blog post though, (Though its not helping matters, mind you)...

Here we go again! Another absolutely adorable little girl, looks to be around four. LOVE LOVE LOVE the pig tails! 

NO FREAKIN HELMET. 

And she's on a horse that (Ok, I'm going to assume its the little girls' mom thats posting the ads, though can't really be sure) well, we'll say an otherwise knowing adult said "however, if you want a bombproof horse for the grandkids, this is NOT your mare!"  

And and and ... the mare is a head tosser? That means she randomly flips her head around in all directions. Most of the time its backwards. Towards YOUR head. Or in this case, the little girls head. To my one day tens of readers, have any of you ever been hit really hard in the face with a base ball, or even by a horse's head? It hurts! Really bad! She's got a tie down on the mare for the pictures, but a tie down is not a quick fix. If this mare was determined enough, all she'd have to do is toss her head high enough and hard enough, and she'd end up rearing part way. Some head tossers fight tie downs so hard they flip completely over. I wouldn't call this safe behavior for a four year old girl.

She's also bareback. If this ADMITTEDLY!!! non bombproof, kid not safe horse decides to spook at... say a small bird in the tree in the background... she's done for. There is NO way this little girl has the ability, skills, or physical strength to stay on this giant 16 hand horse. That adorable little pig-tailed blond could get seriously hurt, if not outright killed. 

I mean just LOOK at how TINY she is on that big red horse! Thankfully,from the looks of the mare, she really doesn't seem to be that bothered about much of anything. However why take that chance? Why run the chance of your child getting KILLED because you were too lazy to stick a helmet on her head? 

Here. That one's less than $50.00 with tax/shipping. Comes in lots of pretty colors too. 

And oh look, another Troxel for only $27.95 PLUS Free Shipping!

Not putting your child in a helmet while on a horse for any reason should be at least a small fine if you get caught. I personally think it should be under the 'child endangerment' laws, but thats just me.

I don't care how much people love tossing around the term 'bomb proof', there is no such thing as a 'bomb  proof' horse. There are only horses that haven't found or come across anything scary enough to blow up at yet. 

/rant. 

Small concern brought up

My mother made a comment regarding the legality of what I am doing here. 


So, I started actually reading through Craigslist TOS to see what they say about the matter. 



And I quote:

"craigslist permits you to display on your website, or create a hyperlink
on your website to, individual postings on the Service so long as such use
is for noncommercial and/or news reporting purposes only (e.g., for use in
personal web blogs or personal online media). If the total number of such
postings displayed or linked to on your website exceeds one hundred (100)
postings, your use will be presumed to be in violation of the TOU,
absent express permission granted by craigslist to do so. You may also
create a hyperlink to the home page of craigslist sites so long as the
link does not portray craigslist, its employees, or its affiliates in a
false, misleading, derogatory, or otherwise offensive matter.


craigslist offers various parts of the Service in RSS format so that users
can embed individual feeds into a personal website or blog, or view postings
through third party software news aggregators. craigslist permits you to
display, excerpt from, and link to the RSS feeds on your personal website
or personal web blog, provided that (a) your use of the RSS feed is for
personal, non-commercial purposes only, (b) each title is correctly linked
back to the original post on the Service and redirects the user to the
post when the user clicks on it, (c) you provide, adjacent to the RSS
feed, proper attribution to 'craigslist' as the source, (d) your use or
display does not suggest that craigslist promotes or endorses any third
party causes, ideas, web sites, products or services, (e) you do not
redistribute the RSS feed, and (f) your use does not overburden
craigslist's systems. craigslist reserves all rights in the content of
the RSS feeds and may terminate any RSS feed at any time."

So, according to them, as long as I don't post over 100 links, I'm a-ok. 

Since I'm NOT posting links, I'm taking screenshots and converting those into .png files and uploading those directly, I'm not violating the CL TOS. 

AS for the pictures that are taken of the horses themselves, they are the posted copyright of the person that took them. As I'm not claiming to take the pictures, nor am I making money off of them, simply reposting them here, according to copyright laws, thats not a violation either. I'm not hot-linking, directly linking, or anything along those lines. 

So unless anyone can definitively prove otherwise, I'm within the boundaries of the law.