FFFS: How Many Studs Does One Need?

When you are getting rid of horses because you have too many, that puts a certain ideal, or image into peoples heads. When its too many STALLIONS you have...thats something else altogether. 


Like this guy, in Houston. 

2YR OLD STALLION FOR SALE, HE'S HALTER BROKE, LOADS WITH EASE, LEADS ON A LEAD ROPE, HE WILL FOLLOW YOU WHERE YOU GO, VERY GENTLE HORSE FOR A 2YR OLD STALLION. HE EVEN GETS ALONG WITH MY OTHER STALLIONS, I WAS GOING TO USE HIM FOR BREEDING, BUT I HAVE A STALLION FREISIAN THAT IM GOING TO US E FOR BREEDING NOW, ALONG WITH MY OTHER CLYDESDALE STALLION. THIS 2YR OLD WILL MAKE A GOOD BREEDING STALLION, I JUST HAVE TOO MANY STALLIONS RIGHT NOW. MAKE ME AN OFFER, AND HE COULD BE YOURS, WILL MAKE YOU A HECK OF A DEAL ON HIM, WILL ALSO CONSIDER TRADES. PLEASE CALL OR TEXT 713---0502, WE HAVE HIM STARTED UNDER SADDLE, AND HE IS DOING VERY WELL, IF I DIDNT KNOW ANY BETTER, I WOULD SAY HE HAS SOME TRAINING UNDER HIS BELT. 


If you click on the ad picture, and compare it to the ad text, you'll find it doesn't exactly match up - when I took the screenshot of the ad, it said what the screen shot said, but I neglected to copy the text into a text doc like normal. The ad was still up, but the ad text had changed some since, so thats what I copied over to here.


He has just too many stallions right now. 


How many is too many? How many did he have to START WITH? (Cause there's another ad of his you'll see here in a sec.) I don't get the mentality that a horse is ok to breed at 2, but NOT ok to ride at 2. I think in this case it might have something to do with .... dare I say it.... Penis Envy? 


Seriously. LOOK at these pictures. 

This guy has at MINIMUM 2 Clyde Stallions AND a FRIESIAN stallion, and he's taking pictures in front of what looks to be a HOUSE on the side of the road in the driveway???


Does this picture make ANY sense to you? 


Friesians are highly expensive - and if this guy doesn't put his Friesian stallion through the inspection process before breeding, the registry WILL kick his horse out of the studbook. They tend to NOT like their horses breeding without their permissions, because of the high inbreeding coefficient within the Friesian breed. 


But back to the Clydesdale. The horse isn't THAT bad. Stallion quality? I don't know enough about the drafties to tell... but at first glance, probably not. Or at least let him fill out some before deciding whether or not he's worthy of being bred. 


Its the decision to take the pictures in a freaking driveway in front of his house, in an area that looks like there is nothing 'horsey' about the area. 


Here's the other ad...


HAVE A HUGE CLYDESDALE STALLION, HE LOADS WITH EASE, LEADS ON A LEAD ROPE, GENTLE WITH MARES, ONLY GETTING RID OF BECAUSE I HAVE TOO MANY STALLIONS, HE GETS ALONE WITH MY OTHER STALLIONS, BUT IM GOING TO JUST KEEP MY FREISIAN STALLION, AND ONE OF MY OTHER CLYDESDALE STALLIONS. THIS HORSE IS A HUGE HORSE, BUT HE IS GENTLE AS CAN BE FOR A STALLION, HE IS WORKED WITH EVERDAY, HES AN EASY KEEPER, WOULD MAKE SOME WONDERFUL COLTS FOR SOMEBODY. CALL AND MAKE ME AN OFFER, WILL ALSO CONSIDER TRADES. CALL OR TEXT 713---0502 


At least these pictures are a teeny bit better... kinda ... 

If blurry is better than ghetto I guess. 

Long Back or Club Foot?

I decided to leave Tuesday's post up as the top post for an extra day so that hopefully a few more people could see it and maybe one or two more eyes would be opened up to the Big Lick Industry. I had typed up a big ol long reply for what Kat and CNJ said, and then I went to post it, and realized I was logged into gmail under the wrong email address... when I tried to log out and log back in under the correct gmail, blogger ate my post. I really didn't feel like retyping it out again, but the gist of it was that Kat, you are ok to correct anything I ever say on here about soring and the BL industry if I'm wrong and simply that its the 'good ol' boy' club that needs to be seriously broken up permanently within that upper echelon of the Tennessee Walker Club in regards to the Celebration Show for any serious changes to happen. I loved what happened with the Celebration where all but (correct me again please Kat if I'm wrong! :) ) I want to say 2 or 3 horses were DQ'd out of the Saturday Night Championship Big Lick Class, with some seriously BNT being told they couldn't compete that night for the Ultimate Big Lick Title. 


I'd love to see more of that, as would a lot of other people. 


That posting also had the very small distinction of being post number 70 for me on here! I should do something fun or snazzy for post 100, I just don't know what yet. 


I also have a very awesome update, that I've been dying to put up here too, I think after the nastiness of that photo, we need some goodness here, yes? 


I'm sure all of you will remember this little donkey from the "Can't You Hear Him Braying Ouch!" posting. 

He was rescued out of that dump and here's his story! 

One of my borders did decide to go and buy him.  Of course we got about 4-5 stories from the owner of how long he had had Donkey and where he got him, so we are really not sure of his background.  He was still intact, so our first matter of business (after his feet, of course!) was gelding him.  He has been a trooper right along.  He has been beaten in his past (was VERY scared to be hand grazes at first), but he is amazing with my 3 year old daughter, just melts for her.  His feet are MUCH better.  Our farrier did a great first trim and Donkey cantered off after and moves soundly!  All of our horses are scared of him, and now he is starting to be scared of horses because of their reaction!  He is fun to have around.

The Barn Owner that sent me that email also gave me a link to a facebook album with a few more pics of him. She also included pictures of his gelding surgery, so there is some blood, but its not terribly bad. Those are his feet from before - I'm thinking the top is front, the bottom is hind, from the angles of the legs. Either way, no animal should ever have to walk around like this.

There's a few more pictures in there than what I can show here, but I have to include this one. I just LOVE donkey faces! This guy sure looks TONS happier now.

And AFTER the first trim... loads better. The farrier has estimated about 6 months of trims to get his feet back to normal but he will get there.

There are also some really adorable pictures of him with the BO's daughter... like most donks, he's got a soft spot for kids.  They named him Otie! LOL.

Thank you so much Francine for sharing that and allowing me to put it up. We need more good stories like Otie's! 

I am still periodically checking up on Comet and Valora, I'll try to get an update on them soon as well.

Ok, shall we move on with the icky stuff? Today's not to bad, I promise. Just mild ickyness. 

I named today's post "Long Back or Club Foot" because one of the ads features a very long backed horse, and one of them has a club foot... but do very similar jobs. The price point between them is substantial, and while I'm very sure the vast majority of us will agree that one of the price points is more than outrageous, I'm interested in the question of what conformational faults would you be willing to overlook if everything else about the horse is spot on. 

Rope Horse/Kids Horse/Trail Horse Bay Gelding $1000 FIRM (Maricopa)

Finished Bay Head and Heel quarter horse for sale. "Doc" is a sound 1990 model that loves to be ridden and roped off of. He has been on vacation for the last few years and I just can't stand to let him sit in the pen and go to waste any longer. He shoes quiet, hauls well (he should know because he has been to all corners of the southwest). He would be a great horse for a #3 roper or better. I have hauled him to anything from USTRC ropings to rodeos to local jackpots. I have made quite a bit of money off of him roping. He is a wonderful horse all the way around. I am the second only owner of this horse which means he hasn't been passed back and forth from one ranch to another. "Doc" has blood lines from Doc Bar and Hancock. He is not current on registration papers but everything is in line to be set up. I bought him from a horse breeder in Colorado that produces pristine looking horses. He won a reigning title as a 2 yr old. I am comfortable putting my kids on him and not having to worry about them. Doc would make a good kids horse too if that is what your looking for. He is one that knows the difference in experienced and non experienced riders - A good babysitter! . No bad habits and loves to be taken care of. Current on West Nile Shots. Doc has also been around cattle in the pasture and on the mountain. He is sure footed when it comes to ridding on hills and trails. "Doc" has also been on a few hunting trips and knows how to pony and pack. I hate to get rid of him but knowing that he will live out his life doing what he loves means more. Please call Jessica 480---0969. 

p.s. that is a fly tag around his neck.

So before I post the picture of this guy, let me point out a few things. He's older, (19) which can be a double edged sword. He's an ex-roping horse - which means he really might have that 'seen it done it all' attitude. Most of these old rope horses really are as close to 'bombproof' as one can get... though as always, there are exceptions. One thing that concerns me is the 'reigning title as a 2 yr old'... that means he was broke way early, and combine that with the roping life... soundness would be a serious consideration with this guy. 

"I bought him from a horse breeder in Colorado that produces pristine looking horses." 

This sentence by itself would make me stop and wonder what a 'pristine looking horse' is, but I think I'll throw out the picture for you all now... 

E-YOW! Gotta wonder what some people are thinking when they write these ads. Why this chick chose to use the words "pristine horse" to describe this guy I have NO clue. I've seen swaybacked horses before, I've had them here on the blog before. You'd think though, that she'd SAY SOMETHING about his back in the ad - instead of trying to pass him off as "pristine" - whatever the hell that means. Sway backed horses most of the time can be ridden, but good saddle fit is a very high priority here. 

Honestly though for him at this point, pasture life with a few 'pony rides' for the grandkids might not be a bad life for him; add in some Light trail work to keep his mind active and sound... but he's not going to hold up to hard work - that back will simply give out on him one of these days. She's only asking for $1000 - which I think is a great price for him, considering that his personality/mental soundness will be well worth that price. 

He's obviously the 'long back' for this post lol. Let's move on to our club foot, shall we?

!!^MADE BARREL HORSE READY FOR ANY LEVEL RIDER!!! - $20000 (East Tucson) 

Creek is an amzing horse she has beat the odds! she is not registered and has a clubfoot but yet she places at the top of the 1D consistantly when she is in shape unfortunetly my ground is too hard for me to work her and i dont want to take the chances. She is automatic and is quiet at the gate she is automatic enough for a little girl to start on or high school rodeo. I only want to take one horse to college with me and that is also why i am selling her i am negotiable on the price depending on the home, because she is out of shape. She can do so much but we dont get along as well as i would like i ahve seen her go so much faster with other people so come try her!! she is you next money earner!! 

please call or text 520--1184 

Yea, I told you that one of the price points was outrageous. *Dissection knife at the ready*

1st of all... a club foot isn't a work death sentence. The sorrel mare you see on the side bar had a mild club foot, and while she wasn't that comfortable to ride (the worst jackhammer trot and canter you've EVER been on), it didn't affect her that much. I have no idea why the hardness of the ground would affect the mare...unless there's other soundness issues going on with her as well? What I want to know is do you work your OTHER horse on that same ground...

2nd ... This mare is NOT registered. I will never say unregistered or grade horses aren't worth buying. But when have you ever heard of a grade horse going for $20,000 WITH a club foot? 

3rd... its ok to admit that you are going off to college and can only afford one horse. Most people will understand that. However, admitting that the two of you didn't get along is not the best selling point! 

4th... I get the feeling here that she's looking at this mare as the possible start to her college fund... I mean come on. $20,000 for this mare? In NO WAY will she ever get that close to that price. She claims she's negotiable on the price to the right home, and I can see her maybe using the uuber high price to turn unsavory people away. But how far exactly is she willing to come down from that mountain top? What is negotiable for her? $5,000? $10,000? Would YOU be willing to drop the price by TEN GRAND if you were heading off to college? Why set it THAT high to start with? $10,000 is plenty high enough to scare away those same types of people and still give you some negotiating room without making yourself feel like you just got robbed. 

I *think* just by looking at the picture the left hind might be the club foot, but It might also be the shadow crossing over the hoof too. Since you can't see the right fore, it might very well be that one too.

Can't tell from the action shot as well. She had two other pictures of her barrel racing, but they were covered with "Proof" watermarks, and I wasn't about to repost those. 

So back to my original question. Here we have two similar backgrounded, but different horses that did similar jobs. They both have pretty serious conformational defaults. Neither being one you want to pass on. The gelding, at least there's no possibility of that happening... but with the mare, there's a very GOOD chance she'll be bred, if she hasn't been already. 

Out of the two, which is the lesser of the two evils?

You NEED To See This

Today Katphoti posted on her blog, For The Tennessee Walking Horse, a picture that is one of the most horrible pictures I've ever seen regarding a horse that has been sored. 


For those of you that don't know what soring is, read this. It is an article she wrote on her website regarding what soring is, how its done, and what it does to the horse. In a very brief nutshell, its the practice of making a horse so sore in the hooves that they step higher and farther while in the show ring to make the Tennessee Walking Horse rambling walking gait into that "Big Lick". These horses have contraptions built on their front hooves that are sickening, but what is worse is what it does to the horses. 


Case in point. 


Here is the picture. 

According to her blog today, "the HIO is Heart of America--that's not the horse's name. I also found out this horse won the class and "passed" post show. I think we can all conclude what' really going on here."


That horse passed the inspection? HOW? The TW world is highly corrupt, there is money passed between owners/trainers and the inspection crew to grease the system all the time. Wanna bet that something like that happened here? 


The TW show industry is regulated by the Horse Protection Act, and at each show, inspectors theoretically inspect each horse for soring. The intent behind this should be simple... if a horse shows signs of soring, they should be DQ'd from any competition, and the owner/trainer should also be DQ'd as well. But the show industry polices itself, and I think the above picture, taken from a 2010 show, proves quite clearly that IS NOT HAPPENING. 


So who do the inspectors work for? The USDA of course. US Dept. of Agriculture. Who have been sitting on their asses and allowing this shit to continue on. The very inspectors hired and put into place to stop stuff like this have become part of the very problem at hand. The 'good ol' boy' system of showing has swallowed the inspectors, and now the very ones appointed to stop this horror are allowing it to continue. 


She wrote a letter to the USDA demanding something be done about this, and she posted that on her blog. I have her permission to repost it here. 


"I received the attached photo today. If you don't know about the photo, I hope this is enlightening to you. If you already do know about the photo, then this had better be a strong reminder of how the Federal law is continuing to be violated.

From what I understand, this horse is named Heart of America and this photo was taken this year. I don't know anything further about it, but I don't believe I have to. This is absolutely ridiculous. This horse is obviously sore. Is this what our industry has come to? Is this what SHOW and other HIOs that allow this freak of a demonstration of this breed believe is okay to be in the show ring? I don't know if this horse was allowed in the show ring, and frankly, I don't care. It's the fact that this horse was on the show grounds at all in the state he's in that is absolutely unacceptable.

I am begging the USDA, please, PLEASE ban pads and chains from the show ring and limit the toe length and shoe size and weight like all other sound horse venues have done. These practices have obviously helped--why is it that the USDA won't follow suit? It doesn't matter that the industry claims that stacks don't hurt the horses--it's what they are doing to these animals when they are allowed to have stacks on them that does. Pressure shoeing will be easier to detect without pads on the horses. Shut down HIOs who continue to have violations at their shows. The USDA has been able to pass rules such as removing the saddle for inspection and not allowing a horse to show for the rest of the show if it's found in violation...certainly rules can be put in place to get this to stop for real.

I believe you are not doing enough and that the time for allowing the industry to police itself is over. Step up and stop this. Playing around and adding rules here and there is not going to stop this--we know that. These people have had plenty of time to stop this, and now they need real action from the Feds to end it. Stop trying to not offend them or upset them or whatever it is that is keeping the USDA from banning these practices--they don't deserve it because they are criminals. The Tennessee Walking Horse has become a disgrace to the horse industry at large, and it's obvious that those who continue to sore horses will not stop. Make a difference and make a change for the better."

Another Baby Being Ridden

I've had this ad sitting in my 'To Use On Blog' folder for quite some time now, and I think its time to bring her out. I'm sick of seeing the pictures every time I open the folder. 


Gotta read this ad carefully... I nearly missed it when I first read it. 

 Horse For Sale - $1000 YEARLING FILLY FORSALE!! She's a BEAUTIFUL App/TB/QH. Has been handeled since day 1 and was born on April 24, 2009. She loads/clips/ties andeverything else you can sit on her and everything, has been saddled but to young right now to do anything else really. She will be easily trained. She has the potential to do anything you want her too. She's high spirited and a great friend. But we really cant afford her and we dont have the time to spend with her. She is $1,000. Firm. Her name is Starstruck call for anymore info 352--7848 or 407--4819. And ask for Jeff or Jessica. 


Did ya catch it? 


If you didn't, I'll help you out. 


Quote: " you can sit on her and everything, has been saddled". 


This is directly after she mentions that the horse is only a yearling. This ad was posted on April 9th. I know the official birthday for horses is Jan 1st... but we all KNOW that sometimes is a crock of B.S. This horse wasn't even fully a YEAR OLD WHEN THE AD WAS POSTED.


And this weanling, cause that would be the correct age term for this filly, has already been SADDLED and SAT ON?

Its a appy/tb/qh cross. Wanna just IMAGINE the fugly? 


I'll help you out. I guarantee its worse than you think.  

OK, we can all say it together. 


OH
MY
F*ING
GODS! 












All three of the pictures were dressed up the same way. This is Nauseating.














This isn't about selling the horse... its about how KYOOT the owner *thinks* she is. This mare is nothing but a grade mish-mash of different breeds thrown together that happened to get the town's idiot as her owner. 


$1000? 


Yea Right.