Thursday, June 10, 2010

FFFS - Pretty Is As Pretty Does

How old would you say this horse is? 

My initial guess was 3 years old. A slightly hip high 3 year old. 

Would you believe me if I told you he was a yearling? Born Jan 27, 2009.

He's a halter horse - if you hadn't guessed that much already. He's for sale, too, of course. 

He's a beauty, isn't he? Without knowing parentage, going just off of his look alone, I'd say this one might possibly be 'stallion material'. This is also the way a stallion, or stallion prospect, should be presented.

He's beautifully groomed, new halter, angles are correct on the picture, gorgeous pasture background with very few distractions and the fence to gauge his height. (Nice little trick there. :D)

This horse, is also this weeks Friday Featured Fugly Stallion. 

I'll give you three guesses as to why. What could possibly put a stallion such as this up on MY blog as the Fugly Stud of the Week? 

AQHA Black Stallion-Halter/Breeding Prospect - $7500 (Leesburg, Texas)

This colt is by CK KID and out of a producing daughter of Sierra Te. He is 16 months old and already stands 15 hands and 1/2 inch. He will easily mature to 16 hands or even more. 
For more pictures visit website: 
For more information email at

Hmmm, very little obvious help there. Ad is decently written, spelled correctly, relevant information related to the horse being sold. 

He's by CK Kid...the unanimous 2001 AQHA 2 year old World Champ Halter Stud & #4 on AQHA's Leading sire list as of 10/09... CK Kid is out of Touchdown Kid...who is out of Kid Clu ....... Seeing the picture here? 

Pretty black stallion up there is N/H, just like Daddy, just like Granddaddy, Just like his ENTIRE FREAKING SIRE LINE IS HYPP POSITIVE. I didn't even bother looking up the Mare Line, its totally not worth it cause it doesn't even matter if the mare is N/H or N/N. 

They completely omitted that fact on the Craigslist Ad. Oh, its on his sale webpage so they can't be accused of not disclosing the information. But he's being sold as a Breeding Prospect of Course - why WOULDN'T he be - and apparently, nobody gives a damn about HyPP. 

By the way, I never realized that CK Kid is owned by the NFL Legend Terry Bradshaw...I dislike football to begin with on its own principals, but I'll never EVER be able to watch another football game with Bradshaw as Commentator again the same way. 

I just looked through TB's website - half of them are listed with HyPP Status, half of them are not. He's got a partnership going with Ted Turner (the biggest name in stock halter trainers) and they are rockin' and rollin' their way to more WCh's. 

It doesn't get any bigger than this in the Stock Horse Halter World. Ted Turner is simply THE biggest trainer there is when it comes to AQHA Halter, APHA Halter, and ApHA Halter. If he still is breeding, showing, and training HyPP Pos Horses, then why should anyone else change too? 

Dennis Hood Quarter Horses, the barn that has CK Sierra up for sale, has their motto on their home page. 

"Breeding the Best to the Best then Hoping for the Best"

Well, you moron, if you weren't breeding HyPP Positive horses, you wouldn't HAVE TO HOPE FOR THE BEST now would you? 

BUT BUT BUT (Hush hush now), *whispers* Its OK to breed N/H, cause nothing ever happens to them, its just a little letter, won't hurt anything, besides, we can get $10,000 per 2 year old if I breed to _________ (insert N/H or H/H stallion of choice)!

If these horses were not commanding the world championships, and the multi thousand dollar price tags - if they were worth the $200 - $3000 that we see daily on Craigslist and other similar sites, whadda wanna bet that their worth would suddenly plummet, and *gasp* people might actually pass them over for a non diseased horse? 

Oh wouldn't that be the day? 

Yea. I'm harsh. I don't care what the horse looks like on the outside. If its H/H or N/H, geld it. Put it on Regumate for the rest of its life. Ride if you must at your own risk, but I firmly believe that you don't breed it, you get RID OF THE DISEASE. It could happen within our lifetime if this wonderful mindset were to happen. 

If the big stock registries would actually grow the balls they so love to advertise, they have the power to stop it. A simple ban on any horse tested N/H or H/H would do the trick. Of course you'd still have the ones that don't follow the rules and breed them anyways, but those foals would never be eligible for breed registration, thus dropping their value wayyy down. Fancy bloodlines that can't show breed don't get high stud, breeding, or selling fees, see? 

So $7500 for a horse that could, theoretically, have the biggest horse sized seizure at any time, have a heart attack, have his throat swell up and suffocate, or simply freak himself out in the middle of an attack and smash his head against a stall wall. $7500 for a disease that NOBODY that has the power to do anything about, is doing anything about. 

I love my stock horses, I really do. Hypp is becoming not just the Quarter Horse Disease. Outcrossings to arabians, morgans, thoroughbreds, and numerous other breeds are now at risk as well for spreading it within their own lines. All it would take is one qh outcross and there you go. HyPP is now in YOUR breed and you might not even know it. 

It has to change at the top. At this level. Or it never will.


  1. At first glance I thought it may be a TB... but then looking through the sale page photo's I found a few other interesting things about this horse and the others listed.

    He's a yearling- why the chain? If he's that hard to handle, either fix it or geld him.

    When did over at the knees become the latest trend? That and being so tied in at the knee are not leaning towards long term soundness.

    He is awfully narrow based too. Then in the frontal 3/4 shot, where they tried for a wider stance look- his legs look incredibly crooked. Not what they were hoping for for sure.

    They note under the first two photo's "Nice hocks", but the pasterns caught my eye instead. Looks like maybe a bit of epiphysitis (sp?) there already, or in the making...

    As far as the HYPP status- as long as they noted it and people can keep it under consideration- I don't so much have an issue with it. If they breed willy-nilly to anything and everything that comes along, HYPP status considered or not? Then there's a problem. But it is the problem of those who are paying for the breedings, raising the foals and dealing with the seizures. If they are not educating themselves any further than "Oh Look! Pretty Horsey, let's breed", then they have only themselves to blame. Pretty much goes the same for others of different breeds, crossing the lines and producing more.

    They could always dump the horse without papers and gawd knows a backyard breeder will jump on it amd make a huge mess without knowing the root of the issue.

    The dam is at least N/N, but her show career consists of only noting- 3rd at the World in Weanling Mares, 4th at the World in Amateur Mares and Qualifying for World in Yearling Mares. Sorry but weaners and yearlings are fillies, NOT mares. What happened after that? Why was she no longer campaigned? Or was she, and just couldn't compete?

  2. Well, Yea, He's a halter horse bred from 'world champion' bloodlines. Of course he's going to have leg and soundness issues. Goes with the territory.

    As for the chain... I think the 'trend' now is to put the chain on whether the horse needs it or not. With as much as this yearling must be eating, with the testosterone; most likely very, very little turn out if any at all - I totally believe that this horse might be very hard to handle at this stage of his life. Its probably not even from his temperament, just from lack of energy outlets.

    The few halter stallions I'd been around while working for Stacey & Randy - we showed Penny's (from Pretty Penny Ranch) halter stallions for her. I believe they still do today, from their website. 2 paints and a quarter horse that still to this day, ranks as the horse I have hated above all others. We 'got' him as a coming 2 year old, and he was about as big as this black yearling above - but there was absolutely NO way you could handle him without the lip chain and a crop in your back pocket. Just going into his stall was a 20 minute chore to get the halter ON him, he was so ill mannered. We were working with him on that part, but she had let her workers mis treat him in the past, and thats what he learned.

    He was triple bred Impressive, I don't know what his Hypp Status was - if she'd ever had him tested they never told anybody, but she refused to cut him at all. "Cause he was goin to world."

    At any rate, he's the one that would come at you in the stall, lunging open mouthed teeth bared aiming for your face.

    The paints - we got them younger, one as a weanling, the other as a long yearling, and they were a bit easier to handle.

    Cool is the bay halter stallion, and we had My Te Premonition too - he was the weanling. He was born while I was still working with them.

    So, yea, chain? check. Bad legs? check. Mares that have a tiny show record? check. Kids Perpetual Joy on that same page? BITCH BITCH BITCH she was, but she was bred every year - and all of her babies had that same dispostion. Her big accomplishment? She was AZ Sun Country Circuit Champ one year for her class.

  3. Just a quick question re. this colt's conformation, if I may? I didn't catch his knees (thanks, CnJ), and I understand the HYPP issue. But his hind legs - aren't they a bit too straight?


  4. marknsvet- No problem on the knees. I hardly ever looked at them or below unless judging a halter class from the rail- to keep it from being so boring. Now it's one of the first places my eye goes to. Thanks JR!

    The pasterns on all four are incredibly straight. But then I guess the trend in the stock breed 'world' of their own, is to trim or shoe to make the leg appear as straight as possible... instead of long toe/low heel, it is no toe/all heel. Which may be what is making them look over at the knee if they aren't already built that way.

    He does have a nice shoulder and where they say his neck comes out high, where else would it if he had a straight shoulder? Lower, you bet.

    He is also a tad on the downhill side, but a lot of the stock horses are, even when they are done growing. Fact of life & no big deal. They were built a certain way to do a certain job. Nothing I take offense to in the least. It just means when you are asking them to elevate in the front and lighten the shoulders- it may take a little more work, but it can be done.

  5. The chain is no more than a crutch and what do you do when A) you don't have one or B) it breaks? You are pretty much screwed either way unless you straighten the horse out long before it reaches that point.

    I worked with one stallion who was a nasty assed, POS until they finally gelded him. The trainer and I were the only ones to handle him. The other grooms would have gotten someone killed.

    He would charge/strike the front of the stall when another horse went by. Put him on the walker- unclip the lead and MOVE! He reared and struck at you or spun and kicked. Getting him off the walker- go in armed!

    I was to carry a whip at all times and use it accordingly. Which I did until the one day I was caught without it. The jerk started bellowing and puffing up over a horse on the other side of the fence- all the way across the farm! I jumped at him and went off. I screamed at him, yelled at him and made him think I was pissed off and batshit crazy, besides being looney as all hell! I went berzerk on his ass for what seemed like a long time but was really only a minute or two. My roommate was freaked out by it too. After that I didn't need a whip around him for about 3 weeks. Just an "Excuse you" was all it took. He kept testing the waters and before long it was back to being armed with a whip at the trainers insistance.

    I kept pressing for them to geld him, but they held their ground to run him through the sale as a stallion. All I could see was somebody getting hurt! He passed through the sale and was finally gelded. Oh Happy JOY! Beautiful day in the horseworld. Once the hormones cleared the system- he was a completely different horse.

    If they are that nasty or hard to handle, there is really no reason not to cut them. Unless of course you have no issue with passing the temperment along to the foals. If I am looking at a stallion and he is behaving like that- you couldn't pay me to breed to them. Too many other NICE stallions out there. A yearling acting like that because they are amped up and not allowed to get it out- says a lot about the quality of knowledge and the people around them.

  6. Sad part here, is this is the very top of the pile when it comes to 'knowledge and people'. Its standard procedure.

    'outfitting' a horse for halter - we had to take the golf cart and it took 2 people to work Cool and the 2 paint babies - one to drive and one to sit on the back and hold the lead rope. They got 15 minutes of trot time around the arena - approx 7 min in both directions, then when that was done, they got to stand and sweat under neck and throatlatch sweats.

    That was their excersice other than the allowed 20 min of turn out 3 x a week. The bag of food they got each feeding was obscene.

    Penny had learned this from standing a world champion halter Appy Stud - from the guy that trained Coyboys Customaid, who was a top trainer during the late 70's and early 80's

    It was during one of the golf cart trips that I nearly got killed by Cool - I had drawn the short straw to hold him, my co-worker was happy cause all she had to do was drive. Carting Cool also required a baseball bat for the person that was holding him. Not a whip, a literal wood baseball bat. It was the only thing that would keep him at a safe distance. If not, he'd literally try to jump onto the cart and bite your neck and head.

    Anyways, he was feeling particuarly 'good' one day, and was bucking and jumping all over the place instead of trotting, and one buck literally pulled not only the rope out of my hands, but yanked me off of the back seat of the cart. I tumbled to the ground right in front of him, and I saw him look directly at me, and he leaped - had it not been for Randy screaming at me to roll he would have stomped my head.

    It was at least 3 weeks before I could face handling him again, and a while after that (don't remember how long) I had him in the wash racks (the WORST design ever - 7 foot brick solid walls with cross ties in the front and that was it... you were between the horse and the solid wall to bathe) - anyways, he spooked at something and I was next to his shoulder aiming the hose at his rump and he moved his body twoards me, I didn't get out of the way fast enough, and my right wrist got caught between him and the wall while I was partially pinned against the wall. I could NOT get him to move - after about 5 minutes he let up just slightly, and I was able to get a knee up into his belly and get him to move a bit more.

    x-rays showed he sprained my wrist slightly. No time off either ---

    Penny refused to geld because she Never Handled her horses herself. Always the trainer and the grooms -but she hired mexicans that had no clue how to handle a horse and they just did whatever whenever.

  7. So I have to admit, I had a look at the 'for sale' page there...

    The first horse- the saddle is too far forward and doesn't fit. Nice way to start off there. Then I have to ask who their farrier is, or was at the time of these photos? I see a lot of horses with their angles being off. One side has heel the other has none. A few are shown standing in dirt or grass so the hooves are not visible much, but it's still there... look at the coronet band.

    A LOT of straight shoulders a few with no withers a few narrow based, cow hocked... I don't blame or fault the horses a bit. They didn't ask for it.

    The video of the bay stallion Cool, there is a considerable amount of hay on the ground in the arena. I do hope they try to treat for sand colic, because they sure seem to be asking for it to happen.

  8. The first horse is Toby, who really was one of the sweetest geldings in the show barn. He was up for sale most of the time I was working for them, and If I could have afforded the $15,000 price tag they put on him, I would have bought him in a heartbeat - I really loved that boy. He's the one I would go in with after blanketing the horses and lay down with for a while.

    The saddle was borrowed from one of the other boarders, just to see how he would look in an english saddle. There were so many other better pictures of him, no idea why they picked that one. The owner put it on him, and its just barely tight enough to hold the saddle on (I was actually holding Toby when that picture was taken.)

    I don't remember the name of the farrier though. The guy they were using while at Pretty Penny didn't want to move over to them while they were at Camelot at 96th/Cactus, so they had to find someone else - I think they used him only while they were there before they moved out to Cave Creek. Don't remember his name either, only met him once or twice. Younger guy, I remember that, white truck. *shruggs*

    Food was Cools Kryptonite. He'd semi behave while there was food around -- but since that video was taken out at their Cave Creek Location, long after I quit, I don't know why they would be feeding in the arena. Thats not something that was done while I was working for them. Actually, Stacey was pretty strict about NOT feeding them on the ground.

    Who knows. I'm still proud of their main picture of there stallion, Principal Decision, as I spent nearly 4 hours grooming him for that picture shoot. They told me it was the best he'd ever looked. One of the few real compliments I ever got from them on my work as Groom for them.

  9. Camelot was the old Adams Arabians. The north end of AA at least. The 'arena' with the gazebo- never used, unless for photo shoots. In fact none of the grass turnouts were used unless for photo shoots. How messed up is that?

    Now I has to go back for a lookee at PD...